Welcome to How Leaders Lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learnings of the by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today, well, let me tell you something. He is one of a kind, a true innovator and one of the best marketing people I've ever met. Talking about Jesse Cole, the founder of fans first entertainment and owner of the Savannah bananas. Now, the Savannah bananas are a baseball team competing in the Coastal Plain League, but you don't go to their games for the baseball. No, you go for the dancing grandmas and the conga lines and get this, the underwear salute. Now there's a phrase you probably never expected to hear of this podcast, but this is all part of Jesse's plan. He knows how to stand out and get attention and even better, he does it because he truly loves his fans. If you want your business to stand out, this conversation is going to be an absolute game changer for you. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Jesse Cole. I have to just start out. You can't see this, listeners, but I am looking at Jesse and he's got on a yellow tuxedo and a yellow hat and yellow shirt. What's behind all of that? I think I've been wearing the yellow tuxedo for now seven years. It is my uniform. As I share, I played baseball my whole life and I had a uniform that I played. That was game time for me. This means it's show time. So I believe everybody has something that makes them stand out. This is my calling card. I wear it all the time. I actually proposed to my wife in front of a sold out crowd in the yellow tux. Thank goodness. She said, "Yes, we're still married." So it's amazing. So I found a lucky one. But this is me. I believe everyone should amplify themselves. This is me outgoing, a little bit crazy. I wear it all the time and have fun with it. Jesse, you don't have a traditional marketing background. You didn't grow up learning and proctor and gamble yet at 35. You were doing all these amazing things from a marketing and attention getting perspective. How did you learn your trade? Well, it started because I took over the worst performing baseball team in the country at 23 years old as the general manager. And of course, I got the job as a GM because no one wanted it. I took over that team and there were only 200 fans coming to the games. $268 in the bank account and we had three full time employees and payroll was on Friday. So there was no choice. So I realized then I was like, we were a baseball team, but no one cared. And I always question, what business are you in, but what business are you really in? And I realized we weren't in the baseball business. So I had to figure out what could we be the best at? And I said, let's do entertainment. So I started reading everything about marketing, entertainment and having fun. And David, that's when we started having our players do choreographed dances during our games. And we started having grandma beauty pageants and salute to underwear nights. We tried it all. But we knew how to create attention. And once we got people to understand that we're about fun and we're not about baseball, we made it really easy to continue trying things that would get people excited. >> So from a marketing and attention getting perspective, you're self-taught. >> I had to be, yeah, I believe everyone should be a sponge and never stop learning. And it's so obvious with you that you're learning probably more today than you were 20, 30 years ago. And I think the greatest leaders are constantly learning. So I started reading books, everything I could get my hands on. And my three biggest mentors were P.T. Barnum and Walt Disney and Bill Vek, one of the famous baseball owners from back in the day. And I just tried to learn as much what they did to create the excitement and attention and really get the customers to love them. >> But give us the one big insight you got from each one of those mentors. >> Well, I actually made three custom posters that are inside my office. And the one of Bill Vek says innovation. I don't break the rules. I merely test their elasticity. And if you know us, we break the rules with a lot of different things from dancing players, a break dancing first base coach. So we're always testing the envelope. The second one, P.T. Barnum. And it says showmanship. And I've always tried to be a showman. And his quote is something terrible happens without promotion. Nothing. And so constantly thinking about what he did to create excitement about his brand and his museum and then the circus. And then Walt Disney. I've read every book there is about Walt Disney. And his poster says vision. It's kind of fun to do the impossible. And I look at Walt and the adversity he went through and the challenges and how he had mortgage his life and his house to keep going. Because he had this vision of making a huge impact. So for us, I'm always thinking what's next? You know, where is the baseball world going? But more importantly, where is entertainment going? And we're challenging ourselves to put on the best show in the world at our ballpark. And it's a lot because of inspiration from those three. Well, I'm going to go back out of your childhood. Tell us a little bit about your upbringing. Well, I grew up as an only child in a small town, a Situett, Massachusetts, only about 7,000 people. And my childhood was different. As an only child, my parents actually got divorced when I was 8 years old. And my mother unfortunately had a drug problem. And so my father had to fight to get custody of me. And my father worked so hard to get custody of me because it was different back then. The mother almost always got the child or the children. And he fought to get custody of me, but he had to work really hard to provide and put food on the table. So I was alone a lot. So without going too deep, David, I think that is one of the biggest things that's driven me to where I am today, because I was constantly fighting to get love and to get affection and to get people to like me and be around me. I didn't have a ton of friends as a kid. So now my dream is bringing 4,000 people together every single night and high-f iving and singing together and dancing together. And that's why my favorite moment, every game, is at the end of the game. And we're just thanking the fans and having fun. And I think my child and the challenges brought me to that point. And I am so thankful for the childhood I had as being an only child, being alone. Because now I get to surround myself with people having fun every single day. Did you grow up loving baseball, Jesse? Yeah, that was one great bond my father and I had. We played baseball all the time. My dad told me, "Jesse, if you want to go to college, you've got to get a full scholarship." And so I worked hard at baseball every single day and was fortunate to get a full scholarship in college. And I was hoping to play professional baseball. But my third year, I tore everything in my shoulder. That ended my career and I was done. And fortunately, the best things happen when you least expect it. I got an email about an internship working with a team to help on the front office aspect and help to get people at the games. But David, I think the biggest thing I learned is I loved playing baseball. But boy, I hated watching baseball. Baseball is long, slow, and boring. And I think that made it easy for me to try to create something that's exciting and fun. Yes. I want to talk more about that a little later. But tell us how the tells the story of how you actually ended up in Savannah. And what you started out with with the baseball team that you had heard. Yes. I started in Gastonia, like I said, when I was 23 years old. And we started creating attention with the Grandma beauty pageants and the dancing players and started attracting more fans. And eventually I bought that team because I wanted to really have ownership and take over. And then out of nowhere, the last game of the season in 2014, I proposed to my wife in front of a sold out crowd and I stopped the game fireworks shenanigans. The crowd was like, what is happening? She said yes. And the next day, she said, I want to surprise you with something special. I want to take you to Savannah. And we never been in Savannah. So we went to Savannah, fell in love with the city, went to this ballpark which had professional baseball for 90 years. But it had failed. We showed up that one night, David, and there was only 200, 300 people there. And no one cared. And so I looked at her, I go, this is shouldn't happen. There should be more people here. So I called the commissioner of the league. I said, if this team ever leaves, we're coming. And we found out that that professional team was leaving because they couldn't get the support. And lo and behold, we were able to come in there. And that's when it really started, that was about three years ago. And we showed up that first day and the team had cut the phone lines, cut the internet lines. There was nothing left in the stadium. And we were by ourselves. My wife, myself, our 24 year old president and 322 year olds. So we took on a wadded debt to get there to buy an expansion team. And then our challenges were just starting that first day. How do you get the courage to just muster that, muster up and buy a business? Belief. And I think that's something that we don't talk about as much. We believed that we were different, that we would create something successful, that we cared more. So like we weren't your typical baseball team. We believed that it would be successful here. Maybe it was dumbfounded belief because no one really proved it could be successful in Savannah. But that was it. And then I'll tell you, it got harder, David. When we sold one ticket in our first two months, and then on January 15th, 2016 , when I got a phone call saying that we overdrafted our account and we were completely out of money. And that's when my wife turned to me and said we have no other options. We have to sell our house. And we sold our house, emptied out our savings account and got an air bed and just started trying to hope we could create attention and make it work. And that was just a little over three years ago. Yeah, I noticed that I read somewhere you started out a little duplexes, a couple of you got there. Oh geez, yeah. It was the nastiest place you can ever imagine. I walked in and said, Nope. No way. So we bought it because that was all we could afford in sleeping on an air bed. And I think like you and any other leader, you've all gone through those challenges. And if you really believe in it, you're willing to sacrifice yourself for others. And my wife, power to her, she was like, we're going to do this because we know we can make it successful. You know, you called your team the Savannah bananas. I don't know if like it's like saying toy wood three times in a row. So, you know, I don't know if I could do that. But anyway, was this a no-brainer for you or did you wrestle with that decision ? I mean, you know, a lot of people would say, oh, if we called the Savannah bananas, the maybe the people in the city will like that or make it fun of them. Was that it? Were you, was that an easy decision? No, it was unbelievable scary. Even today when I go through airports and I'm going to get a keynote and people are seeing me in a yellow tux, that's still awkward and uncomfortable and scary. But naming the team bananas was really scary. We had a thousand suggestions for bands. We only had one person suggest bananas. But we knew that what our brand is, it's fun, it's unique, it's different. It's not like everyone else. We were very, very intentional with making that decision because we knew that's who we are. And so when we came out with that name, we created unbelievable attention. But we were also ripped apart locally. I mean, people were saying the owners should be thrown out of town. You guys are an embarrassment to the city. You'll never sell a ticket. But here's the thing, David, they were all talking and everyone was, it was number one trending on Twitter. So they were talking. So I believe that if you create attention and you get people into know your brand, then you can really show them what you're about and how much you care. And that was the whole goal. We wanted to get them to understand, hey, this is wild, the Savannah bananas. And they're naming their mascot split. They have a senior citizen dance team called the banana nannas. Who are these guys? All right? And that was the whole plan because once they knew who we are, then we could really start having fun. So you call them, call the team Savannah bananas and get started. What was the response to your initial marketing or tend to get any ideas? It wasn't a hint right off the bat or take time to grow. Nationally, it was a huge hit. So we started doing merchandise orders all over the country and all over the world. And we had no idea how to do that, by the way, how to ship shirts to New Zealand and United Kingdom. We had no idea. And nationally, everyone was talking about bananas. But locally, as I mentioned, people were saying, you guys are not going to succeed. You're going to fail. You're an embarrassment. I mean, I would say thousands of comments, emails, voicemails telling us that we will fail. We'll never even play a game. And that was hard to sleep on. But that's what happened when we named the team. And then from that point on, it was like, all right, we got a chip on our shoulder. It's nice to have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder. We saved every one of those negative comments. And a year later on our anniversary, we did a mean tweet video. And our whole staff was reading those negative comments on a video. Did that go viral as well? That created some attention as well. What was hilarious is most of those people saying those negative comments ended up buying season tickets with us, which was crazy. Well, how long did it take long? Did it convert the attention into tendons? Yes, because again, we were trying to do what people liked. And I think any business, you got to start with what frustrates people about the industry you're in. And we realized people were frustrated because baseball was long, slow, and boring. And David, you know this, when you go to a sporting event, how many times did you get nickel and dined? $10 for this soda, $8 for this burger, $9 for this. So we did the exact opposite. And that was our whole model. Whatever is normal, do the exact opposite. So we created all you can eat tickets. Every ticket included all your burgers, your hot dogs, your chicken sandwiches, your soda, your water, your popcorn, your dessert for $15. So people were like, wow, it's a good deal as well. Similar to young brands, you see these unbelievable deals. And so that really got people into the brand. So after a few months, we started selling out games and people came out. And as you know, your customers are your biggest marketers. When they came out to the ballpark and started seeing the break dancing first base coach and started seeing the pet band and started seeing all the promotions, they were like, wow, these guys are fun. And then they did all the marketing for us. You know, Jesse, everybody talks about disrupting categories and disrupting businesses. You've got the Netflix's, the Amazon's of the world. And you're touching on this, but I want to go a little bit deeper on it because I think you're making it a really big insight here. I mean, you know, you talked about how you disrupted the baseball business. What advice do you give to other businesses and other leaders on how they should put their category in their business? I think it's really easy model. And I call it a mirror moment. Look in the mirror and put yourself in your customer's shoes. What do you hate about the industry that you're in? Whether it's like banking, for instance, how many times do we call a bank and we get put around for like five minutes before we talk to someone? That's a pain point. You know, think about lawyers and law firms. You're charged every minute, every email. That's a pain point. So we looked at all the pain points, wrote them down and said, what can we do to do the exact opposite? And then I really believe that next point is what is the perfect experience for your customer? Love your customers more than you love your product. We all love our product. We talk about what we sell, but how often you talk about who you serve. And so we started loving our customers. And I'll tell you the name of our company is fans first entertainment. Our missions fans first entertain always. Every decision we make is it fans first. So like for instance, when someone buys a ticket from us, they get a video of us celebrating. Say congrats, you just made the best decision of your day. Right now as you bought tickets, we all celebrated. We grabbed your tickets. A banana nana put your ticket on a silk pillow. We put it up in the air. We had a seance around your tickets. And then we now put them in maximum security in our vault. They're ready for you to go bananas. That's the first touch point and then every single person that buys a ticket gets a thank you call from us. Now most of the times they think was in my credit card not work, we said no, no , no, we're just calling to thank you. You have to map the experience and love them and how do you want your customers to feel? And how do you want to make them feel about your experience? And that's what we map. I mean, from our tickets are shaped like bananas. Last year they were scratching snip and smelled like bananas. I mean, we try to go all out on every touch point. And I think any industry, what are those frustration points? What are those pain points? Put yourself in the customer's shoes, do the exact opposite and then love your customers more than you love your product. And David, I'll share one more thing last year, which I think every company should do. Last year we tried this out called undercover fan. And every night someone on our staff went undercover. Even me. I took the yellow tuxedo off. I drove. Yes, crazily. All right. And we went through the entire experience as a fan. So I came into the ballpark. I parked like the fans did. I came into the stadium like the fans did. I went through lines like the fans did. I sat in different seats around the ballpark. And every night someone on our staff would do this and we'd get together at the end of night and talk about the experience. What could we do better? What are great things that we did? And now we have 30 pages of notes from last season because we went undercover. How many people have gone undercover and actually experienced what it's like to be a customer of your business? That was a game changer for us. So you literally, you put yourself and your people literally in the shoes of the customers. Yes, 100%. And it was mind blowing what we learned. And you talk about the importance of getting attention. And you say attention beats marketing 100% of the time. Yes. Explain that. We marketed the team like crazy when we came to Savannah. We had, we were on Facebook. We were doing radio ads. We were doing newspaper ads. And we sold one ticket. It's proof for me. If you're marketing like everyone else, you're going to get results like everyone else. That's why I always say whatever is normal, do the exact opposite because normal gets normal results. So for months, we were doing the same advertising. It wasn't until we got crazy and got attention. So I challenge everyone to think like a reporter. If you're a reporter, do you want to cover your business? What's your story? Is it different enough? Is it interesting? You know, what you did, a Taco Bell, I mean, brilliant at getting attention. And they thought like a reporter. I mean, literally having weddings at Taco Bell. Are you kidding me? All right? So we did attention and it brought people into the brand. Taco Bell has done such a great job in pizza on KFC. What are those unique things? And I think that's what every business has to do. Every day I'm challenging our staff say, what are we doing to create attention now? And like, give an example, every team sells T-shirts and hats, right? So last year, we sold Dolce and Banana underwear. You literally, if you can see it right here, we actually did Dolce and Banana underwear. So we came up with tighty whiteies and put a big banana on the crotch. And we also had the small underwear with the small banana on the crotch. And we sold Dolce and Banana underwear. It wasn't supposed to sell, but it sold like crazy. I don't know because it was different and people were talking about it. So you know, what are those things? How can you be the only? Everyone tries to be a little bit better, a little bit faster, a little bit cheaper. What are you the only one doing? And that's how you can really create attention. You also talk about being a moment maker. What do you mean by that? I believe nothing matters more than making people feel like they matter. And so what we talk about is fans' first moments. You may have core beliefs for your company. Everyone does. But do you have stories that back up those beliefs? And so we challenge ourself every day. Literally, and this is from you, you know, you talk about recognition so much and no great one in taking people with you. Every week, our staff sends an email to the leadership. What was one thing that they did that was fans' first and what was one thing they saw someone else do that was fans' first? We're looking for stories. The more stories that we have, that really builds the brand and who we are. So what are those moments that we create? So I mean, we have hundreds of them, you know, but I give you one David example is happy tears. You talk about the emotions that you want people to feel, you know, when they come into your place. And I remember last year, I go around the stadium doing selfies every game with fans, which I don't know why, but people love selfies for some reason, all right? So I'm going around the stadium doing selfies. In one game, I saw this little kid jumping up and down with a poster. "Jassy, Jassy, come here." So I go over and I go, "What's your name?" He goes, "I'm Cameron. Can we get a selfie?" I go, "Yes." And he goes, "Here's this poster I made of you. I'm your biggest fan. I'm the biggest fan of the bananas." I go, "Of course." And I go, "Cameron, this selfie is going to be on Facebook." He goes, "Facebook?" And I go, "Yeah." And I come back, I see our director of first impressions. I go, "Kiki, I want you to watch this." I go into the dugout. I grab a sign bat and a sign ball and I go up and I get on a knee and I deliver this to Cameron. And all of a sudden he goes, "And starts crying his eyes out." Literally, tears flowing down. I go, "Cameron, are you okay? Are you okay?" He goes, "No, they're happy tears. They're happy tears." And at that point, his mother's crying as well. The whole section is emotional. And Cameron and his mother stayed for the entire game, which is rare in a long baseball game. And he runs up to me at the end of the game, gives me a hug and says, "Thank you. That's one of the best days of my life." Really by doing a little gesture of handing a bat, taking a picture and creating happy tears. We share those stories every day about how, what are those moments that we're creating to make people feel like they really matter. And that really has built our company into what it is. You know, I was listening to you there. You talk about one of the people in your organization and you had a title, director of first impressions. Okay. And that got my attention. Okay. You give people unique titles in terms of their roles. We let them own it. We had to director of fun, director of first impressions. I mean, you name it. We have fun with it because we want people to own their position and own what they do. And Kiki, our director of first impressions, started out as a shy 22 year old. And now she oversees the staff of 150 people at 25 years old. And it's amazing. Her story is amazing. We share that all the time. But yeah, you know, own it. This job's supposed to be fun. And as a leader, you need to give your staff permission to have fun. David, you did that. You know, everything you did from the cheese heads and from the floppy chicken, the rubber chickens, that's giving your staff permission to have fun. And I think these formal titles are over. They're not needed anymore. Well, Jesse, you're in another league and you're making me go. I wish I would have thought about it. That's fantastic. I would imagine, you know, with your energy, you have to be somewhat of an impatient person. And what advice do you give on patient spirit and people? You know, you've taken on all those responsibilities so early in your life. What's your view on patients? I was very challenged with that when I started. It was all about me, me, me, me, me. Growing me, I want to be a GM, a management partner, an owner. I was so patient about what I wanted. But that didn't bring me that much happiness. It was being on a hamster wheel. And it finally came to me. My greatest happiness is seeing other people have the time of their life, having fun, loving what they do. So on the back of our fans' first playbook, which we share with everyone on our staff, our players, and it says be patient in what you want for yourself, but be impatient in how much you give to others. And what I've learned now is that when I can share, teach, and have fun with others, it brings me more joy, more success, more gratitude. So you know, like the thank you letter to you, David, I mean, I started that in 2016. I started the thank you experiment. I said, I'll write one thank you letter a day to someone that's made an impact in my life. And now into 2019, it's three years straight and over a thousand thank you letters. And that gives me joy. That gives me happiness, but it's also spreading gratitude to someone else. So patience is a challenge, but when you start thinking, what can you do for others, you'll be amazed at how much the things that you want start happening faster. You know, I really was blown away by that note that you sent me and it did make my day. And, you know, obviously gratitude plays a significant role in your life. Did you have a story that kind of brought that forward in your life or has that just been something that's occurred over time? I started the one word by John Gordon a few years ago. Are you familiar with that? I know of it. I have not read it. You pick one word for a year and instead of a New Year's resolution, you just focus on that word because most New Year's resolutions fail. And so I started that with my wife and then we brought it to our team. And in 2016, my word was care. And I said, I can't just care. I got to hold myself accountable to that. So that's why I started the thank you letter experiment, the thank you experiment. And I'll tell you what happened, David, it was mind blowing. I mean, it really was. I sent a thank you letter to my sophomore English teacher who made a real impact in my life. Within a two week, she sent a four page letter back to me and she said, I've taught for over 30 years. I've never received a handwritten letter. And I was so hurt by that that I was like, if we can just tell one person a day , thank one person a day, what an impact that would be. And now our director of tickets has started it because it won fan a day. And everyone on our staff, thanks one fan a day, whether it's a thank you video , whether it's a text, whether it's a letter. And it's an amazing ripple effect that, you know, it's just like recognition. You're recognizing people for what they've done. And you shared that with us. And I think that's had a profound impact on us. What else do you do to go about inspiring your team, Jesse? If you obviously care about people. It's how I show up every day. It's how you bring energy. You know, I think it's really important the stories that we tell. You know, every morning, what are you doing to be prepared to be your best self ? As a leader, I'm very intentional. You probably have a routine as well. I wake up, I write my thank you letter, I write, I read, I go for a run, I listen to podcasts, Ogo Lead is up there. All right, I listen to those. And then I come back and I'm already primed. So many people come out during the day and they put fires out. They're firefighters. But I've already succeeded. I've already won the day. So my goal to inspire people is to show up and be a model, to give our people permission to have fun, to give our people permission to teach and share. And I share stories. You know, I get on stage and I share stories and I share stories about them. It means a lot when they see that they're featured in a big article or their big video. So how often are leaders talking about their people or how often are they talking about themselves? And I've heard you numerous interviews. You're constantly talking about the people that worked with you, not for you. As a leader, most leaders have it the other way around. They think, you know, I have people that work for me. You got it wrong. You work for your people. And so how often you share in those stories. So this is the combination of learning and reading thousands of books on culture, experience. And you know, again, I think we know we're getting better every day. So there's a long way to go. I got a lot to improve on. I'll tell you that. You're an avid reader, Jesse. How do you go about building and inspiring your own teams? So we started the Better Book Club about three or four years ago. And it's actually an online platform, which has every book in the world. And it asks a few questions and you fill out a book report and then we pay our people to read. So when we have a great book, it made an impact. We will just share it with everyone and we'll say, who would you recommend this book to? And so now we paid thousands of dollars to our people, which theoretically is a much better investment than spending $6,000 to send someone to a conference if they 've read 20 books and actually did reports on them. So we learned this from Arnie Malham, who started the Better Book Club and it's been huge for us. One of our people, Kiki, our director of first impressions, never read when she graduated college, never read one book. And now she's read 15 books and she's obsessed with it because she loves it and she's learning. And that's amazing to see someone fall in love with learning and growing. It's a great way for you to show how much you care about your people and once they care about you, they know you care about them, they're going to care about you. Well, we want to make them better people, not just better as employees. And we're focused on them as what type of people they are. And if they're growing and developing and becoming better people, that's a win for them and it's a win for the business. So why wouldn't we pay them to read and help encourage them to be a part of learning and getting better? You know, you're a big time in the individuality, notice the yellow and tux. And you really believe in being true to yourself, what's behind that? What really got you to believe so much in being exactly who you are? I think I was afraid in the beginning. You know, it's a tough question. I was afraid to kind of come out and be different. I mean, I didn't wear this yellow tuxedo all the time. I dressed like everyone else. I wanted to fit in like everyone else. But I realized my personality is about, you know, being out there, being outspoken, having fun, talking, being crazy. And so every time I wasn't being this, I was hiding. So I think a lot of us, we have to give ourselves permission to be our full self. How many people show up to work every day and all they're thinking about is the weekend. How many people are showing up all day and they're not being their whole self? If I'm not being my whole self and wild, fun, crazy, Jesse, why would, you know , our staff be that way? So it's such a tough question for me, David, because I just tried with small bets. I first started wearing this during our games. Then I started wearing this during speeches. Then I started wearing this at the office. Now I wear it all the time. And I'll tell you the looks I get at the airport these days are crazy. All right, people look at me like crazy. And it had to get over that fear. But now that I'm over it, I'm like, you know what? We need people to be more out there, more different, more unique. And I think hopefully it's given other people permission. I spoke the other day and a young woman came up to me and she said, I've been hiding myself for months and years. But now I let my hair go red. I show my piercing. I'm okay to show a tattoo because that's who I am. And who do you want showing up to work every day? The person that's who they are or the person that's hiding themselves? You know what, I read a quote that you have which I love, which is we're not born to fit in. We're born to stand out. That's exactly what you're talking about, right? Yes, yes. Everyone. And you don't have to wear a yellow tux. You know, David, I guarantee there were numerous things you and your leaders did that. You were like, wow, I'll always remember that about them. You know, I question, I opened my book, which is crazy because I wrote it when I was 32, 33. I opened my book with my eulogy. I actually sat down and wrote my eulogy. And I question everyone, how do you want to be remembered? If you were to write down who you were, what you stood for and the impact you made, would you be proud of it? Is it a story you want to read? And when I challenged myself to reverse engineer my life, it said, yeah, of course, I'm going to be myself. I'm not going to be like everyone else. And some people won't like it. And that's okay. It's so tough, especially for young people today, to not care what other people think. And I still go through it as well. As that only child trying to impress his dad and make him proud, I still care what he thinks and what a lot of people think. Once you overcome that, boy, happiness and fulfillment, man, it comes pretty strong. I think we all go through that. But you do have to muster that. But if you can wear a yellow tuxedo or give away rubber chickens like I did, it 's kind of crazy. But it's you and it makes you feel good when you do it. Yeah, thanks for saying mustard up because that was a good reference there. I'll take that one. That was for you. I can't jump fairly quickly. A lot of puns. I like it. What's the biggest mistake that you think entrepreneurs make when they start out? They try to be like their competitors. They try to be a little better than their competitors. I'll tell you, I have not looked at other baseball teams, other sporting teams at all. Our competition is not the other sport teams. We're competing with Amazon, Netflix, Ritz Carlton. I try to focus on where can we be the only and what can we take from other industries. I think even looking at the fast food, everyone's trying to, oh, a four for five deal, a three for five deal, a two for five deal. Everyone's just trying to mirror each other. So then how do they stand out? So I would challenge any entrepreneur that's starting a company. What are you the only one doing? What makes you stand out? If you say you're a little bit better, a little bit cheaper, a little bit faster, that's not unique. That's not only. We pride ourselves every, I mean, this year we're going to have the first ever male cheerleading team called the mananas. We're going to be dancing at our ballpark. We'll be the only ones with the mananas. And we challenge ourselves on that. So I think entrepreneurs really think about what makes them the only. You know, fans first entertainment, this is a definition of your company, it's your frame of reference. Where do you see taking that over the long term? Because it gives you lots of room to play. You don't have to just be a, you know, offer up the great baseball experience, which you do. But you see broadening this into other categories or other aspects like Amazon. Amazon started out as a box store. Yes. You know? If you asked me six months ago or a year, I would have said 5 million percent yes. But what I've learned is that often we try to do so many things and we don't do it as well. And so we were doing events. I mean, we had all you can eat food truck festivals, haunted stadiums, concerts . And we weren't doing that well because that's not what they're best at. We believe we can provide the best sports and entertainment show in the world. So that's what we're going to stay focused on. And I think everyone's so focused on scale and growth. And I'm so impressed with people like you who've done it tremendously. But again, you stay true to what you did. I mean, I've read some of the stories when you try to combine elements sometimes. They didn't work as well. You know, Taco Bell should not be serving things that Taco Bell shouldn't be serving. And they do it really well. So we are going to look at how do we do what we do best and maybe show it to more people. So the answer your question, David, maybe we can take the show on the road. Maybe we can bring a fans first entertainment to the bananas to more teams. But bring our break dancing first base coach and our banana nannas and bring what we do well and expand that. But I don't know about doing too many other things outside of our realm. What would you do if you took over Major League Baseball? Where do I begin? The challenge, here's the challenge of Major League Baseball. They're making more money than they've ever made before. It's over $10 billion. The owners are growing. They're making more money. Yet here's what's happening. Attendance is dropping dramatically. Drop 4% last year. If you look at the crowds here in early April, less than a thousand people at some ballparks, I think the challenge is they need to figure out how do they make the game faster, more exciting and more fan centric. Right now they're so stuck on tradition and the way the game should be and not focused on the fan. They love their product, maybe more than they love their customers. And so I never want to throw a stab at Major League Baseball because I'm so fortunate to have a job in baseball. But our success has become because we focused on not the baseball, but focused on the fan. So if I were in Major League Baseball, I would say, "All right, how do we get our players more involved with the fans? How do we make the game more fast, more exciting?" You know, give me an idea. Our games, the first thing you'll see when our ballparks, our players are outside greeting the fans and signing autographs. Then during the game, our players will come out of the dugout and deliver roses to little girls in the crowd. Our players will even go on dates with fans during the game and we'll have our saxophone guy serenade them while they're having a date with an older fan during the game . Our players have done conga lines in the crowd during the games. Because the players are a part of the experience of the fans. Right now, there's this still stigma of professionalism and the players have to be professional. Let the players have fun and let them get involved with the fans. That's how you build people that love you, that don't just like you. And David, as you know more than anything, love is better than like. And I'd rather have a thousand people or a hundred thousand people that love me than millions that kind of like me. And I think that's what Major League Baseball should focus on. So you've written a book, find your yellow tucks. Why don't you write the book and what's the main message? It shares the journey of how to stand out. As I've shared with you, I believe everyone should stand out and be the best version of themselves. And everyone has one thing that makes them stand out but we're too afraid to actually do it. The book is a goal to give permission for people to be themselves and have fun every day doing it. And so I share my journey about trying to be the best and being a sponge and learning from others. And it shares how to be different in your business and then how to create a legacy based on how you want to be remembered. So it's my journey and it's still evolving but I'll tell you the reception has been really special. So thank you for the acknowledgement. You know, my sister-in-law Gretchen Bart, she was in Savannah and I told her I was going to be doing an interview with you. She says, "Oh my gosh, is that guy crazy? And boy, do they have a fun experience and you're going to love this guy." You know what? She's right. You know, she was pounding your success. Thank you. You sell out your games and you know, people are waiting to get tickets and you 've been on ESPN, CNBC, CNN. How do you keep your feet on the ground? I mean, you know, you can easily get a big head here, Jesse. Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix just recently said, "We're always going to be an underdog." And they were like, "Well, you're dominating right now." They're like, "We only have a small percentage of a global media landscape." He goes, "What about, you know, you're spending $8 billion now on new content." He goes, "That's a small percentage in the scheme of things." Netflix sees themselves as an underdog. The reality is we're a huge underdog. We've always been an underdog. Everyone's thought that we couldn't make it. We're a college summer baseball David. We're one of the lowest levels in baseball there is. So we love the respect, the recognition and the acknowledgement, but we know we 're just getting started. So for me and our staff, I say, "Guys, we're just getting started. We've made an impact on this many fans. How do we make a greater impact on more fans?" And so we tell those stories and we love going in and say, "Guys, hey, we got doubted again. People don't think we can do this." We build that underdog into our nature because it makes it more fun to overcome that way. You've got this restless dissatisfaction with the status quo, which really serves you well. But you know, when you get bigger and I'm sure you're not sleeping on an air bed like now. You've got a real bed now. You know, there is a big temptation to play it safe and kind of hang on to what you have. How are you going to be, basically, make sure you walk and talk on what you just said? That's one of my biggest fears, complacency. The bigger you get, the easier it is to want to protect. And I want to always play offense, always come up swinging the bat. And Netflix is my inspiration on that. When they were on top of the world with DVD sales, they split the company and said, "We're going to start doing streaming." And they plummeted. Then they said, "We're going to go and do all original content." They kept changing when they were on top of the game. So I don't know how I'm going to answer that question coming forward, but I know when things start to get easy, that's when you need to work harder. And so I have a fear. I'm like, "Oh, wow. All of our tickets are selling. We have a wait list in the thousands." Well, shoot, what are we doing? Let's figure out something to make it a little more challenging on us. So what did you do? That's actually, I want to ask that to you. What did you do? Because your brands grew unbelievably. Well, I think one of the big things the leader has to do is to find reality. And every year you have to define what hasn't been done yet. So for me, the joy in business is the unfinished business. What hasn't been done? That's what you want to get up every day and be inspired that they get at. But you can ask me that when I do a podcast for you. Well, you've got a good answer to that one. What's next in terms of how you personally grow yourself? For me, again, it's a sharing story. It's spreading the lessons. And I think all of us need to look ourselves as teachers. So I'm challenging our staff. Everyone of you guys are a teacher. You're not a salesperson. How can you share more? I want them to grow because I think you learn more when you're teaching than when you're actually learning. So for us, we're looking, how can we teach this? How can we teach the fans first experience? How can we teach companies to put on a show for their customers and for their employees? And that's the next step is for us is we're going to start sharing this, teaching it even more. And then as I alluded to earlier, hopefully coming to your town and other cities all over the country and putting on a show all over the country with the Savannah bananas. That's great. You know, so let's wrap this up here. I want to ask you this question. I have two actually. The first one is your wife, Emily, you guys are partners. You're in the business together every day. How do you make that work? And what advice can you give in terms of how to make your business be so integral in your family? It's been a challenge. And I think we've learned a few important lessons. When we first came to Savannah, she took over the operations and she had to figure out how to serve 4,000 people all you can eat in an old ballpark. And every night she got beat up. And I mean literally fans would yell at her, they'd yell at the staff. And while I was being cheered for on the field, putting on the show and I'd get in the car at midnight one in the morning on top of the world and she would be, it looked like she just got completely defeated. And it was at that point that we had a really good realization that she should be doing more of what she loves and not doing what she hates. And so we got her out of that terrible position and challenging and started becoming a mentor. And for us, whenever we get into each other's own world, we have challenges. So she stays away from the show and I stay away from her and her mentorship of our other employees in the HR and hiring. And once we got clear on our roles, we've worked even better together. So I think that's key when you're working with a partner, any partner, be very clear on your roles and don't jump into that place of space because that causes issues. Speaking of hiring, what's the single biggest thing you look for when you hire somebody? We do a three-step process. We want a video cover letter because we want to see your personality. Number two, a fan's first essay on how you're on our core beliefs. And number three, we want to see your future resume. We don't care what you've done in the past. We want to know what you're doing in the future. And so when we put those three together, we are very clear. We can see does this person fit our values and fit our culture. So we are very specific there and we map the experience. Literally, our onboarding, our interviewing. I mean, we put on a show for them. And David, you'll appreciate this. Last ad I did when hiring, I wrote, do not apply for this job. And I gave all the reasons on why you should not apply to work with us. And we've had everyone on our staff interviewed on video saying why you should not work for the Savannah Bananas. We are so clear on the people that don't fit our culture to get very clear on the ones that do fit our culture. And that has been going that opposite thinking. It's been very great for us and that's been a success. So what three bits of advice would you give as firing leaders, Jesse? All right, number one, what makes you stand out? If you can't answer that question, it'll be a real challenge for you. Love your customers more than you love your product as I shared before and love your employees more than you love your customers. And if you can do those three, I believe you can have success for many years to come, but you have to live it. You have to have stories that back those points up. If you just say it means nothing, you need to show it, you need to share it, and you need to live it. And then I believe you'll always stand out. You know, I have to tell you this, I mean, it's very sincere. If I could have ever hired somebody like you, I wouldn't have had a job very long. You are an incredible attention-getting marketing person who is such a great simplifier in terms of taxes, but you have a belief in what works and you're sick into it. And I think every listen should listen to this podcast because they'll learn how to really grow their business and grow themselves. So thank you so much for your time, Jesse. I appreciate it. Well, David, it means a lot. I can't tell you how much of an inspiration you've been for me. So thank you. Well, obviously I had a lot of fun with that one. There's nobody in the world like Jesse Cole, and I just love how much energy and simplicity he brings to the party. Heck, he is the party. And don't you just love his mirror moment where you look at your business from a customer perspective and identify the things that they hate about your industry, and then you solve those problems in a way that differentiates you from competition. That's why the Savannah bananas are getting attention when so many other teams, even in the majors, are struggling to fill seats. This week, as a part of your weekly personal development plan, have that mirror moment for your business. What do people hate about the industry that you're in? Make a list of those pain points, then ask yourself, what would it look like if we could really eliminate one of those and then go do it. It's a fantastic way to see your business the way your customer does. And if you have the courage to break the mold like Jesse does, your customers will notice. And it might just be the strategy you need to differentiate yourself from your competition and maybe even redefine your entire category. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders know how to stand out. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]