Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, I don't know about you, but today is one of my favorite days of the year. I'm one of the Masters Golf Tournament at beautiful Augusta National Golf Club. And to mark the occasion, I've got a very special guest today, professional gol fer and defending Masters Champion, John Romb. I spend a lot of time with John, and I got to tell you, this is one great guy, and I admire him very much for the type of professional he is and the family that he is raising and his devotion to his wife, Kelly. He is the real deal. He's honest. He's very direct, and as you'll hear today, he understands the power of making clear decisions and then being accountable for them. He doesn't play the blame game with anybody. He takes accountability. Decision making is a big part of any leader's job. And if you want to get better at it, keep listening because there's a lot to learn from John today. Plus, you know, we've got some great golf stories, including a little sneak peek into how he's been preparing for this year's Masters. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, John Romb. John it's great to have you back on the show. It's great to be back. First time we did this, it was a little bit ago already, a long time comment. It was just before the US opened, and now you're kind enough to do this just before you defend the Masters. You're the only European, by the way, as you well know, to win both the Masters and the US Open. I mean, how does that make you feel? I think it's the one thing that caught me most of guard out of anything that I 've ever been told about my career that I maybe didn't know. Because I found out on the press room after that Masters and I try to go back because I keep thinking this has to be a mistake. Yeah, and you're a real history buffing. Yeah. The history of the game, you also like world history. How does just being someone who really appreciates history, how does that impact the way how you lead in the world of golf? The main reason why I love it is because my dad was a history major. So when I was young, I watched countless documentaries with him and I started liking it. I think it's really important to know what happened in the past and where we come from, whether you want to talk about it philosophically, economically, whatever it may be. But to get a good understanding of maybe where we're going or where we want to be. Right. I just wrote this new book called How Leaders Learn. And one of the chapters is you learn from your upbringing. So I'd like to go really deep into your upbringing and pick up the learnings that you gain from that experience. First of all, you grow up in northern Spain, which isn't necessarily the golf mecca of the world. Okay. What was that like? You know, it's funny you say that, but three of the four Spanish players to ever win a major were all born and raised very close to each other. So if I go by names, Sevi born and raised in Pedrenia, closest city, the big name is named Santander. All it was two hours east driving, maybe 120 miles in the city called Satsabast ino. That's the closest city. And I was pretty much in the middle. Closest city is called Bilbao. The town is actually Barreca, B-A-R-R-I-K-A for whoever wants to look at that. Not a big town. So yeah, all three of us are from there. Whether it's northern Spain is not usually the best. So I think that has something to do with it, right? Maybe growing up in the town or this area that would be closer to what Portland , Oregon is, whether wise. I don't know, it's a tough thing to do up a little bit, right? Like if it was ever a day where it wasn't raining, we're happy. Right? That was a good day. Well, I got to get into my history and know a little bit more about your Spanish champions because I didn't know they were all from northern Spain. Yeah, Sergio is from Castellón, which is the state, as you would say, is Valen ciat, which is mainly in the terrain in southeast where the weather, you would say, is really good, which it is compared to where we come from. Now, you think about your upbringing. I know you've mentioned to me before, you went to boarding school. What did you learn from that experience? Yeah, I guess boarding school sounds a little bit more intense than what it really was. I did go away. I love my parents, but I went to what's basically the Spanish Olympic Village for all Olympians. It's basically like a hotel. We were there with all great athletes from Spain that were getting ready for the Olympics and all the future prospects for Olympics, right? They had this deal with this one high school where we were part of a high school, but separate to where it was literally on the dormitories, you literally go walk. It had to go through a hallway. That was about 20 yards long when you were in class. From bedroom to class was at most 10 seconds, which is a crazy thing to think about. Yeah, that was her life. I think the biggest step for me was when I was back in Spain, the access to golf course was kind of hard. The only golf course my family could afford to join was an hour away. So I was going to a 30-minute golf lesson on Tuesdays and maybe playing on the weekends to when I was there touching a golf club every single day. That was the biggest difference. And then a little bit of independence. Even though the room was clean like in a hotel every single day and they took care of us, we had to start to maintain a little bit of accountability and went to wake up, went to go to bed, went to study, even though we had a crazy schedule for a 16-year- old. We had classes from 8 a.m. to 1045 and 11 to 2 was practice. 2 to 3 was lunch. Welcome to Spain. 3 to 6 was classes again and then at 6.30 till about 8 was workouts. So then we had a walk back shower and all that. Have dinner by the time you're done with dinners 9 p.m. And then you tell a 15, 16-year-old, "Hey, you have to go to homework and study ." I think that was the absolute hardest hurdle to get through, right? Trying to be proficient at your sport and get through that schedule as well. That was very difficult. You mentioned earlier your dad was a history buff. What did you learn from your dad that you've taken into your life? Ah, discipline. I wouldn't call my dad the most vocal person in the world when he comes to his parenting style, but he always showed what you should do to accomplish whatever you want to accomplish. And that's what he tried to make me understand. There was a couple of main teachings. Two sentences he told me over and over and over. And before I was a pro athlete or anything like that, when I was a kid, he would say, "And I've only heard somebody say something similar. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger. He has the famous 24 hours in the day speech." My dad said, "John, there's 24 hours, eight hours you sleep, eight hours you go to school. That's a non-negotiable. That's 16 hours. You have eight more hours throughout the day to do your homework, do some things at home, help your mom and dad, and then go play and have fun." And I basically that really started to resonate in me the more I grew. And the older I got, right? It's almost to, at this point, it's the same thing. You paid hours, practice, go off close to eight hours, and then the rest of the time is between workout, family time, how you want to divide it and how you want to schedule it . But you have plenty of time to do everything you want to do on a day. And the second teaching was basically, "John, it doesn't matter what you want to do in life. I don't care. But if you want to be the best at anything you do, you're going to have to have incredible work ethic and discipline. It doesn't matter. You always used to say, if you want to be the best garbage man in the world, you're going to have to put more hours on everybody else. Simple as that. Anything you want to do, if you want to be the best, you're going to have to put in the effort." Now, I'm sure you had a golf instructor when you were young. Who was he and what'd you learn from him? So I had a few. The very first one I ever had is named Jorge Losada. After that, the first individual one, I would say that I had his brother, actually, Luis, also ended up teaching me a little bit on the road. The very first one that was not in collective kids' lessons, his name was Edu ardo Thées. Last name is spelled C-E-L-L-E-S, if anybody wants to go check. He's got a school of golf in the best country close to where I grew up. And that's the range I was referring to earlier. On Tuesdays, I would go for a 30-minute lesson, like 8 p.m. and that was it. That's all we had time for. And when I say school, I'm playing fast and loose with school. The amenities you would think, or the facilities are not what you think. It was a driving range alone. You couldn't hit off of grass, you hit off of mats. I think right now with my four iron, I could probably go over the fence. And there was a potting green and a chipping green. It was the same thing. It was synthetic. It was fake grass. And then one bunker with a couple of targets that the grass, I mean, the grass was non… It was more for technique than anything. And that was it. And to be honest, some of the best times I've ever had in my life were there. Incredibly fun. Every time I can, I go back to almost feel that essence of what I came from. And what at that point I thought was the greatest practice facility in the planet. And after everything I've seen, going back and getting that feel again, it's fantastic. I think the greatest thing at the world who ever did was help me understand my swing. He was the one that had the idea of shortening my swing because believe it or not, I came to him with a strong grip and an overswing, trying to smack it like everybody else. And he said, "You know, John, you hit it pretty far already. How about you try to find it far away?" And that's the very first thing we worked on. He told me how to think about my golf game, and backwards in the sense of, " Okay, if I hit a shot that's missing right, right, obviously, the clubface was open. Did the ball start right or did it start left? Did it start on the line to check the path?" And then kind of work backwards that way to figure out what's going wrong and really made me help me understand how to apply that on the golf course as well, right? So that's one of the reasons as well why I think I've been consistent in my career because anytime I'm not comfortable, I feel like I can get a pretty good understanding of what's going on in my swing and apply it to at least be able to put in a score. Not the lowest of the day, but at least put in a score and I'll be fighting myself. Yeah. And then telling me to never change my backswing. He didn't know exactly why my backswing was the way it was, but he knew it worked better than anything else I could try. And he was the one to tell me to never change that ball wrist or the short swing. And how many people have tried you to get to change it? I mean... The Spanish Federation tried a little bit, but only because we're young enough, right? And I think when I was a junior, which is now Jesus 12, 14 years ago, God, I hadn't thought about that in a while. The very first thing when you got to the golf academy was they'll take a swing with a six hand on your driver down the line and face on and draw all those lines and tell you what you needed to do to have a perfect swing because in their mind, it would be the swing that works best in their pressure, which in theory, that makes sense. What they don't know at that time is how everybody, every player's physical capabilities can affect that, right? Probably the best swing for myself is where my body's capable of more consistently. And they tried to get me to strengthen my grip and have a straight wrist and a parallel swing. And I tried a couple of times and once every 100, I'll hit it miles and maybe straight, but it was not a way I could play golf. There was definitely... I remember I had a vivid screaming match with the national coach on the range at 16 years old because I just didn't want to change my swing. I was like, "This is... I can't play golf this way and I'm not going to change. So we're going to have to figure out a way for you guys to make me better, but help me get better with what I've got." You're a very convicted person. Where does that come from? There's things you can do, I believe, to improve and get better within those parameters of what you're capable of, right? Without having to make a drastic change. You can commit to a drastic change, but it's going to take quite a bit of time. If you see Jack swing throughout the years, it doesn't look like that swing ever changed. I'm sure he was working on things, but that doesn't seem like that ever changed . Ben Hogan didn't seem to ever want to change his technique. I'm sure he worked on things to get better, but the essence of the swing is there. So that's kind of the same thing. I couldn't work on changing my wrist angles, but I feel like, "Am I going to get a lot better? Probably not." I'm going to lose a couple of years during the process of changing. I think basically saying that I'm pretty sure almost anyone given to a certain level is capable of hitting every single shot, and there's a way to do it with the technique that you have. Here you are now. You've used that technique. You are the Masters Champion. You've had that green jacket. What was the most fun thing that you did in this past year with the jacket? Oh, first pitch of the World Series has to be. That could be a highlight for anybody without having the Masters jacket on, but having it on was definitely incredibly fun to walk out into that stadium, right, into the Diamondback Stadium and get the cheer I got from the crowd. Even though I'm not a full native Arizonian, I have been there for 12 years now , so it is home for me. I've been there longer than any other plays in the planet, basically, to get the Embrace was really, really cool. Then to get the chance to throw the first pitch, it was very special. I'm sure every time you put that jacket on, you had to feel great. When you look back at it, John, is there anything about the jacket or where in the jacket or having the jacket or being the Masters Champion this past year that's been challenging for you? I think it took a while to set in that you are a Masters Champion. I walked through it every day in the closet. I saw that jacket. Sometimes I touched it. Sometimes I put it on. It took quite a bit to set in that, man, you're actually a Masters Champion. Almost at first, I was a bit like, I was there and I know it, but I didn't fully accept it. I don't know. It's a weird way of saying it, but it seems like such a big accomplishment in my mind that it was hard to internalize it and process it, given how well my year started last year. But challenges, I wouldn't say there's really any challenges when you accomplish something that big. I think maybe managing expectations, if there's anything to do with that, that comes with any bit of success. They say in business a lot of times, the best way to have a bad year is they have a good year because people just relax a little bit, lose maybe their hunger. How has it impacted your psychology as a leader in the game? I think in my mind, at least for me, this is where goal setting comes in. I reset my goals every year to keep them fresh. Sometimes it could be the same thing, but it would be a new page on my notebook and new goals. Some little things change, but at the end of every year, it's almost like with my coach, my mental coach, I work on it, making closure of 2023 and beginning of 2024. That day, which can be a long conversation, it's very needed for me. So I can basically give an end to that year and start fresh on the next one. And I think that's what's helped me. What do you want to accomplish this year? Because if I set myself to, okay, as many majors as I can win in the next 10, 20 years, you can't lose sight of what's going on because you got, well, I got 18 more years to do whatever. So I'm not good at looking far ahead. I'm very bad. You know, I saw the other day that you pulled out what looked to me like a journal. Do you journal every day or how to use that journal? I have one of three. A golf journal in the journal with my mental coach for notes with him and things that I write down that you would see my goals in and then a life journal, right? I like to separate those because golf is such a big part of my life that if I get going in between things that might be happening in my personal life and golf, I feel like they can get blended in that sense. And I want to keep them separate. Priority for me is still going to be being a good husband and a good father, that for sure. So I never wanted to creep in because I've made that mistake before when I was in the past, when I was younger. And the best way to understand what I'm saying is this. Ask yourself this question. Are you happy because you're playing good golf or performing well or are you performing well because you're happy? Right? That's a way I like to see it. Another thing that nobody knows is I took a happiness course in school. What'd you learn? Happiness is not given. That was the biggest thing I took from that class. If you're going to sit down waiting for some divine intervention to make you happy, you're going to wait till you die because this is not going to happen. You need to work on your own happiness. You need to work to make things happen to basically the point when you feel satisfied with your life to where you can be happy. Building blocks. As you well know, and I know you're excited about it, one of the great masters tradition is the champions dinner. What are you looking forward to the most gathering with past champions? What do you expect to get out of that or pick up just from that experience? It's crazy. One perk from being a masters champion that I feel like I put the least amount of thought into meaning when you're practicing, if I make this part, you win the masters. You know what entails, right? The jacket, the ceremony, you get to come back every year, all those great things. You think about the dinner, but you don't actually think about being present in that dinner with who's going to be there. I think that might have been the most daunting thing out of all to recently think about, not the menu, but be like, "Okay, at some point I'm going to have to speak, I'm going to stand up, and I'm going to see every single living legend that this game has ever had pretty much or currently has, and I'm going to have to speak." And I think that might be the hardest thing. I've never had problems with speaking, but I know Mr. Krenshad is going to be next to me, Mr. Riele is going to be next to me, and then you start with Jack, Tiger, Phil, and all the great players that come after that, Gary Player, Ian Woznam, Jose, and Sergio is even thinking about it. The second I say Jose and Sergio, I get an emotional because of how much meaning this has, right? So, Noye, what I'm going to say? I'm going to basically speak from the heart. It might not sound the best, but you're going to feel what I'm saying. Never being good at preparing speeches either. I have a hard time writing down and making the sound genuine if I go too far in advance. And everybody will be eating what you've selected for the dinner itself. What are you most looking forward to having at that dinner? I think the one that a lot of people see and they're asking me about is, he says, "Mama Ram special," which is a funny thing about that is she's not my mom, she's my grandma, but it's her lentils too, right? It's the very first thing I want to hear when I get back home. I just go into her house still and being able to enjoy that meal. It's going to be part of the appetizers or the tapas during the cocktail hour. It should be a smaller version, but to know that her dish is going to be served that I got to the national is quite special. How does she feel about it? I don't even know if she knows. But she's definitely heard about it because Jose Andres, who helped me with the menu, he called her to get the recipe to be able to make it as authentic as possible. Hey, everyone, it's Kula here from Three More Questions. If you're leading a team, I know it's really hard to find time to consume leadership development content and continue investing in yourself. That's the whole reason we launched the New How Leaders Lead App. If you just take two minutes a day each morning to watch the daily leadership insight in the How Leaders Lead App, you'll stay inspired with practical leadership lessons from the world's greatest leaders. I've started using the app and I love how the daily leadership insight gets my mind right before the busyness of my day starts. Download the How Leaders Lead App today in the App Store and stay inspired with amazing leadership wisdom in just two minutes a day. As you move through your early years, you make this big decision to come to the United States to play an Arizona State. How do you think through that decision, John? It's not the process people think. So be and brutally honest, if a lot of those Sensi-Davolaia rules are hard to understand to Americans, imagine what they sound like to a European who has no idea how this works. So I did really well on my junior years. So plenty of coaches on those international events and never had a single offer . Here I was at home thinking that, am I not good enough? Am I not this? Am I not that? I'm finishing top 10. I'm top 10 in the European rankings. Nobody wants me. Kind of questioning what my future was going to be. It was funny as we were thinking about entering university in Spain. Around that time in summer, I played an event in representing Spain as the under 18 European championships, 16 countries, best six players from each country go. And on the second round of stroke play, just two rounds of stroke play and then you go knock out country versus country, right? On the eighth day, I'll never forget this, I saw somebody wearing San Francisco . It was University of San Francisco, head coach was there. My grandma, she's been a pivotal part of my life that I think about it now. Interactly, she had just been in San Francisco in summer, so the summer before. So I went up to him and said, I told him exactly that. I've heard great things about it. Tell me how it is. I guess that wasn't in breach of any NC that will ever lose because I went up to him as I understand it and we struck a bit of a conversation with my limited English at the time and he decided to follow me. So I par eight and nine and then I barely, 10, 11, 12, 13, Eagle 14. Finish second on the stroke play portion of the tournament and then went undefeated in match place, Spain won the tournament. Needless to say, shortly after that, I had a full ride for four years at the University of San Francisco. The only thing is because I'm from November, they thought I was a year behind what I really was. So they wanted me to sit out a year in Spain. I was going to do that and try to get some credit to transfer it. During that process, a friend of mine who was social in the national team, he wasn't in the tournament, but he was already in college. He was at Iowa State and he was supposed to transfer to Arizona State. For whatever reason, he ended up not doing it. Seems like a no-brainer to anybody. But he didn't. So Tim Mickelson, who was the head coach at the time, had a vacant scholarship and a man who was helping the Spanish Federation to get players to better schools. His name is Ricardo Relinque. He told Tim, "Hey, you should hear about this kid. He's really wanting to go to the U.S. He's got an offer already, but he has to wait a year in Spain for that. Told him all my rankings." And Tim had never spoken to me, never met me, never seen me hit a shot before based on my accomplishment alone, basically, and what some people told him, offer me a scholarship. They offer me a one-year scholarship, and then after that it would be based on performance and academics, I guess. I told him that, "Well, I don't want to wait a year, and the weather's better in Arizona." So here we come. We did a little check-in, right? There was Spanish golfer at the time, a woman's Spanish golfer on the team who had been on the national team for me with me forever. So I know she was on the same academy with me, so we've been close for a long time. I knew Alejandro Canithares, another great collegiate player in Spain, had been there and made a pro and had a great career. Carla Táthigand and Atharam, and you have both played for Arizona State, so I kind of thought, "Maybe there's something. If you're Spanish and you go, then you're going to do good." And I guess the rest is history. Absolutely. And you know, you've stayed four years. You were the college player of the year, your junior and your senior year, I believe. And I'm sure people wanted you to go pro after your junior year, and you're doing well. You finished fifth as an amateur in the Phoenix Open. What made you stay? Why did you stay and get your degree? I promised my parents I was going to graduate. It's that simple. Which I guess, thinking back on it, I guess I could have still graduated, but turn pro. It was two main things. Maybe when it happened, I had proven myself that I had the talent to win on the PGA Tour. So that almost took pressure off. And then I thought to myself, "Am I ready to live this life? I just didn't feel like I was ready." It was very simple. I would have had to turn pro at that moment and had no starts, nothing, no way to go. And that was a big leap without having the proper people around you to sustain what a professional life could be. So I made my whole senior year a matter of getting me ready for that moment. So when I knew who was going to be my manager, who I talked to Tim, who was going to come with me once I turned pro, where he was going to leave the school, he helped me throughout that process. We had a lot of things set up. And by the time I turned pro, I had seven starts on the PGA Tour. So at least I had a path. I had those seven starts. And I knew what I had to do. I had seven events to earn my PGA Tour car. And luckily I did. You weren't born with a silver spoon by any means. And the thing that is interesting to me, you've become really good friends and you've stayed at my house and the other night you came in and said, "Where's the deter gent?" And then we talked a little bit, "You're going to wash the clothes." And I said, "We have somebody maybe could help you out with that." And he said, "No, I know what I'm doing here. It kind of surprised me that you did." Yeah. Why is that surprising? Well, I don't know. I don't know how to turn on a washing machine. Well, you're pretty, pretty, you know, it's like, you know, you don't think of this guy who's a smegas superstar doing the laundry, but you do it. And as I understand it, one of the reasons why I love you so much, you really lived off of Taco Bell food, right? I did. See that big value of the money came through. The funny thing is, so no, no, that was college times. Taco Bell came in clutch. The funny thing is, I think I ate anything but tacos at Taco Bell, which I know makes no sense. I had a class. I forgot the name of the class, but it was two hours a break and then another two hours. And then I remember on that break, I would always go to Taco Bell and that time they had this big old tray of nachos. And that was like, man, that sounds amazing. So that's where we're going. And yeah, that freshman year, I basically a weekly trip to Taco Bell every single week. There we go. It's a key to your success. No question. And then you decided to become a communications major. You know, why'd you take that path? I started business communication, okay? And all these classes that I explained earlier, biggest class from I had been in was 40 people. I go to my first business class. He was macroeconomic principles. He was basically a movie theater with 350 people and the teacher had a mic. With my English, I could not understand a single word she was saying. Also I didn't have a laptop. I had a notebook and pen and I look at the screen and I see all these all these power points with like blanks in the sentence as were you supposed to fill in the blank as you speak into the study for quizzes. And I'm like, man, I am way out of my league here. And a couple of those economic classes that I love, but some of the business of the communications ones I took, I thought we were extremely fun. So I decided, you know what, I'm going to go just this route and make it a little bit easier for myself and I ended up loving it. And all that reading and writing and speaking helped my English tremendously early on. So I know it's a little bit odd to think of a person that has speak a lot of English to end up with a communications major, but it really did help and I enjoyed it. And you're actually very, very good at communications. No question about it. One of the things I really enjoyed watching a couple of years ago was the RBC Heritage at Hilton Ed and you were in the booth as an announcer and you really told it like it is on every shot. I mean, you know, do you think there's any area of improvement for golf announcing these days? Well, yes, but I think there is. I think in a lot of sports is ways to improve it. Pretty much anytime I talk to an athlete, display the sport, everybody thinks so. Granted, we say it with zero experience of what is behind being on the booth behind the mic. We don't know what you can and cannot say, right? But I almost feel like all those things that you're not supposed to say is we 'll make the broadcasting a lot more fun. So I don't know how long I would last behind the booth right now, but I think there's a way of doing it. I also think when you have somebody, you know, when I did RBC, I mean, I just won the Masters, I played the tournament. I think I finished 15th. So there is a factor of credibility when not only have it been performing well, I just played that golf course, right? I mean, I sat down, signed the scorecard 10 minutes later, I'm in the booth. So no better experience than that to be able to tell you what's going on. And if there's a way where, you know, they can make that happen or maybe more players can get themselves to do it. And maybe it's not just me and Amanda or Rory and Amanda, you can get me and Rory or two or three other guys that have played the golf course to have a little bit of a discussion. I think that could be something that would be really, really fun, kind of like the Manning cast, right? You have the Manning brothers who know about football more than anybody else out there. And I think the only one that might know more might be Tom Brady and a couple coaches. I mean, they're a delete as a lead as a lead comes and they can understand the situations and explain them in a way that maybe not everybody in the booth could, right? At least it would be a little more fresh, especially golf related if they had just played the golf course, which I think that's the key party. We can do it on the weekend. Somebody that's played earlier and you can get them to talk about it. I think is where you get the actual idea of how it's played. Great suggestions. No doubt about that. Now, I know how much winning the Masters really meant to you. Is there any story you haven't told yet about winning that Masters that's behind the scenes that would give us a sense of just what you were feeling as you were going through that challenge? I think the funniest one was some seven on the third round on seven when I hit it on the green and we get there. I mean, it's pouring down rain and I don't care how good your draining system is. Of course, there was no way of playing with that rain and we marked our balls and the thing was Brooks has turned to putt and this poor guy has come out with the squeegees and they're doing this work. I mean, they're killing it and they're killing themselves doing it and they secondly clear out the last six feet of the pot, they move towards the ball, clear out the other six feet are full of water again. I mean, we're there. I don't know if there's image of this. We're talking to the official, me and Brooks are saying, I mean, we would play, but we can't. We're going to be here all day. Unless he hits it while they're switching, we can't putt and this poor guy's Masters squeegees the green for about 30 minutes before they finally called in. We told them, I'm like, I don't know what we can do because that seemed like the hardest thing I've seen on the course of somebody to do. Besides what everybody, I mean, we also have the trees on 17 and all that. That was, I mean, we're, say I'm Bennett was with us in world like me and I feel bad for those guys. They've been there for a while and they just had to keep going until they stopped or we put it. You know, and I know one of the pivotal holes on Sunday was 14 walk us through just how you processed what you had to do at that point in time. What was the mental process you used to hit this shot to basically three or four feet? So it's funny. This year, this past year, this started reducing the amount of rough photographs in the national and a couple of the holes and 14 is one of them. That rough line was easily five yards up. So two years ago, I would have had a straight shot because we would have hit the rough and state that year there was more for away in that blow kept on going into the rough and within them is fortunate of ending up there, which wasn't, I mean, this is the shot was going there. I had a perfect swing and a good lie. So I didn't have any really impediments besides the ball flight. And well, I had a couple tree branches to avoid, but I could start at the left edge of the green and then it was left to right. When now at that point, I have a three shot lead on Brooks and Phil and I'm aware that maybe I'm not going to make birdie, but you know, apart on that whole going to 15, he was downwind. It's a good chance of a birdie. You know, he could set me up pretty well for the back for the back nine. And I think it was around 100 high 20s meters. I knew all I had to do with that wind is get it to fade a foot. If it faded a foot, the wind was going to take over and that boat was going to be on the green, whether it took this loop or not. It's irrelevant. I knew it would be on the green. I could two putt and that's exactly what I did. I actually, I got a little bit more spin than I thought it was going to get out of the lie, started left of my line, but fading plenty. And once that boat was going, I think, I mean, me and Adam were both sinking the same thing. But I was thinking, please land exactly. Not exactly, but just don't land long. That's what I was thinking. As long as it's not long, we were good and we started landing the slope. And after that, not that I knew it was going to go to three feet, but I knew it was going to feed into it and that's going to be a birdie chance. And that was basically the tournament on at that point in time. I mean, you didn't feel that well on TV. Yeah, but you still have to get through 16 and 17 T and 17, second, 17 in general, so much stuff for a whole that most people think. You know, you play on these huge stages and, you know, as leaders, we get in these situations where we got to up our game and perform at the highest level when it really matters most. What coaching can you give us on what you do to get yourself prepared to play at a US Open or to play at the Masters or to come down that stretch in those last three holes where you got to par in or make a birdie? What's your mental process for that? Two things, having a routine, a proper routine that you can, you know, keep you on that flow state of competition, right? I try to have the routine as repetitive as possible. I just think to an extent you have to be decisive, very decisive, right, when pulling a club, trying to hit a shot, whatever it may be. I rather, in my case, I rather have the, let's say the wrong strategy or the wrong club and hit a shot 100% committed. Because if you make the right swing or the right shot, more often than not giving a certain level, especially if you're competing to win, you're going to end up okay, right? No matter how small the margins are, you're going to end up okay. If you hit, let's say the right club, uncommitted, a lot of times you're going to end up in a terrible spot. So I think commitment in whatever, in that decisiveness, choose one and commit to it 100%. And then you have that routine to help you be on that flow state, right? Or whatever that may be. So you win the Masters, you just come off this incredible year, the year's about the end, and you know, 2023. And you get back into headlines big time with the announcement that you're joining Live Golf. I know you've talked about this a million times, okay? And I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. But you know, as a leader, how do you think through that big career decision? I think it's the biggest decision I've had to make golf wise, because with college, it was made for me. I'm going to just explain it. So besides switching to Callaway, after being with Teller, made it in my career , this was it. And with all the variables, I think it was, it was the harder. Well, I think it was a long, a shorter, but longer process in a weird way. I think me and Kelly, Kelly, my wife, put what could have been a six month process of thought we had to put it in two, three weeks. So it was two, three, very tense weeks of thinking about all this. Obviously, no way around it, the money I got over was so astronomically big, we had to consider it that being number one, right? And ultimately being a large percentage of the reason why we made the decision. And then at the end of the day, just outweigh in what, where I saw my career and what I think it could be, right? And I think something that hasn't been a possibility in the past, which is the availability of consistent team golf is something that I think has a lot of potential. I've been part of a team in my entire life. In fact, when I turned professional, it was the only time I was part of a team because I was either part of my state team, national team, or Arizona state, sometimes all three at the same time, up until I turned pro. Being part of a Ryder Cup is some of the best memories I have. And I thought this had a lot of potential. So we decided it was really good timing for me to go and give it a chance. I know it sounds a little bit out of thought, but that's a very dumb, dumb, dumb version of what we did. So you're definitely going to make a lot of money in a hurry. Okay, no question about that. I mean, it's funny because we all think, okay, how many people in this world, if I could say raise your hand to the planet, who wants to work less and make more money, I think more people, everybody's going to say that, right? I'm not really doing less because I'm going to pretty much play the same amount of tournaments, but the idea is there, right? That's kind of the thought, right? I've never been a money driven person, but you have to think about it. It's generational wealth. Not that my family was going to struggle, but I have the capability of setting up a serious amount of generations of my family, basically for life. And the team golf concept really intrigued you. And as the leader of this team now, then what are you trying to work through to really lead that team in the best possible way? Well, that's what I'm here talking to you. I think that's the next hurdle for me, right? I'm not all I'm a playing captain leader slash owner, however you call it. And you know, I got a I have to get to know these guys and learn how to communicate with each other and try to get the best out of them. I don't want to fall victim over up down in the past and think that everybody thinks the same way and everybody gets motivated the same way as I do, which I know is not true. We all have different upbringings and we all think the difference. So I think luckily, Terrell and I have spent quite a bit of time together. So I have a decent idea of how to push his buttons in the right way, but Kieran and Caleb, I need to get to know. But luckily, you know, they're very they're two very stand up guys with a lot of talent. So while I'm working on myself and how to make it the best experience for them, I know they're obviously they're going to be they're going to be just fine. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with John Rahm in just a moment. You know, if you love golf as much as I do, I invite you to go back and listen to one of my favorite episodes with Jack Nicklaus. He's arguably the greatest golfer of all time. And I ask him what made him so consistent in his career. And this is what he had to say. Well, first of all, I think being prepared is probably the most important thing in any walk of life. You can't walk into a business meeting. You can't walk into anything else, a sales, anything if you're not prepared. And I prided myself on being prepared to play when I was ready to play, when to play. And so as I went into each of those majors, I really geared myself early in the year for the Masters and I practiced on courses that I thought were courses that would help me for a guest. And so when I got to a guest, I was ready to play a guest. And so being prepared, being ready and being focused on those events were something that I really prided myself on. And if you're not prepared, you're not going to perform. And so I think my consistency came because of my desire to focus where I wanted to focus and where I thought was important. Don't miss your chance to learn from Jack, who happens to be a living legend. Check out the full conversation with Jack, episode 21 here on How Leaders Lead. One thing that you did that got a lot of criticism, and I would say unfairly, is that you changed your mind. You changed your mind after being very public, saying you didn't need the money , you wanted to be in the PGA tour, live was not for you. This brought out a lot of haters. I mean, there's no question. It was like, oh, you know, how could you possibly change your mind after going so public? You've already made your money. You know, come on. What are we talking about here? I mean, that was a perception in some corners. How did you deal with that? Because, you know, a lot of times leaders have to change their mind. I mean, I would tell them, I agree. I mean, I said what I said, and I understand what I would tell people is, I think the set of circumstances had changed. Right? Let's say the atmosphere around golf had changed. The second, and I hate to play, it's not the blame game, but the second the PGA tour agreed to do that agreement, everything changed. Right? They agreed to maybe possibly partner with them in the future and get to an agreement. As a player, in my mind, as well, if it's okay for them, why wouldn't it be okay for me? And that was the first time I thought about opening the possibility of maybe doing it. I think that single decision or that single act, smaller, big, however you want to think about it, is what changed and would change my perception. Yet I agree. I said what I said, and it was at the US Open. And even throughout the decision making, some of those concerns were still there. But hopefully we can change some things to make it a better product as well. But yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest things was facing that negative backlash of contradicting what I had said. But I tried to be as honest as I can. And I think I accepted the fact that that was going to happen. And I feel like there's going to be some people that are going to decide to hate me no matter what I do. So I decided to do what I thought it was best for me and made the best decision I could and I could live with it. That's that simple. You've got this unique vantage point now, John. You've been on the PGA Tour and now you're at Live. So if you could bring the two together, what do you think would create the best world for golf that would truly grow the game? There's room for both, right? There really is room for both. We can at the end of this, we can end up with such a good product for the average golf fan. And that's the exciting part. That's why I get excited. We have something that's never been there before. Major championships are not going anywhere. And regular golf, regular tour events are not going anywhere. There's always going to be a place for that. But we have the opportunity to diversify. Is that would that be the word in a little bit? And that's something fresher too with a lot of golf fans are doing now, which is a little bit different golf to what we've had in the past, right? We have team golf. I think that is, it's an untapped potential. I think the team golf has a massive, a massive potential of, of rate when he comes to the game. I don't know what, how it looks like, like if we get to a merger, union, however you want to call it, and what's going to happen. But what do people want to see maybe two or three more teams with some of the bigger names, Rory Tiger, whoever wants to have a team, have a chance to play. And then some of the bigger players that live still going to your favorite tournaments in the PGA Tour. Because I've said, and I'll say it every time, as long as it's not conflicting with the schedule, there's many PGA Tour events that I like to play, right? Torrey Pines, shocker. I want to go back to Torrey Pines, Phoenix, LA, players. There's many of them that I would like to go back and play. And I think it would be better for everybody. I don't know, that's just my... Yeah. So here you are now, John. I mean, you became the face of the Lib Tour, okay? That gives you a huge platform. You know, how do you think about that in terms of what your role is now as the face of the tour? Man, you're always asking me questions I don't think about. It's funny, you thinking about this, I'm trying to win tournaments, right? So I don't... I think my job is to still try to perform a deli while I haven't been performing. And then slowly try to do the best they can and give advice, or in my opinion, when they ask me what I think we should go, right? I'm not one to impose myself. I would only do that if I see things going very wrong. But at the end of the day, I still need to play and keep winning tournaments too, I guess, in a word, stay relevant. And that's right. It's where I haven't really given that much thought. I don't see myself as the face of anything, like I'm just going out there to perform. But if that's the case, thank you. And maybe you can tell me what I should do. Well one thing I can tell you is everywhere you go, everybody knows John Rom. You are a brand in and of itself. How do you think about the John Rom brand and what you want to be connected with and associated with? See, here we go again. I think we're still early on my career to where so far as the accolades that count towards your brand. However, anybody thinks I act on the golf course. I think what I want people to realize and see is I'm very different off, right? I try to be as honest and honorable as I can throughout my life. It's like I said earlier. If all else goes to hell, which obviously is going to work hard not to let that happen, if my brand can be known as somebody, as John, think of the name of somebody who's a good dad, a good friend, a good husband, that would be enough for me. But there's so much more in the future, right? I think many times I've said, especially when the name Liv comes up, I've spoken of how Sevi changed golf and Spain drastically, right? So if I can do my part to improve the game in Spain and accessibility to the game in Spain and in more places, I think that's also important. I think Arnold Palmer and Jack did a fantastic job at being able to do that, transcending from their playing time to adding their name to golf courses and bringing more to it. And if I can do that, which I envisioned that being a little bit later in my career, even though we're working on some things now, that is I think the next step. Try to give back to the game that's given me so much. When you think about your business, the John Ron business and what you currently have, with all your sponsorships, just the revenue that you bring in, what's your approach to leading your business team? To be honest, I tell them all, I hope when you get involved with me, you're ready for about a straight shooter as it ever comes. That's honesty being the best policy. I think, like I said earlier, for the most part, I like to refresh my goals and stay about as honest and constant communication as I can within my time. Obviously, maybe this week, this next week and the week of the Masters, I'm going to be an absolute ghost for a lot of those things, because for obvious reasons, but this time is where I'm usually available and I can work on those things to get it going. The one thing I need to work on, and I said earlier that I'm not good at it, I need to become a little bit better at having a future plan. I'm absolutely terrible at looking down the road. When I say years down the road, I'm horrible. I'm really good at looking at tomorrow, and that's about it. Now that I'm talking about it, that's something I need to get better on to maybe help my team get a better idea of what to do if they can't get a hold on me. You refresh your short-term goals a lot. What would be an example of a great short-term goal besides winning the Masters , I'm sure which is coming up right now? I know, and I would have brought my notebook. It can be as simple as being a team champion, so it can be as simple as improving a certain part of my game. It could be as simple as... I want to go down this, I don't only do professional goals, I do personal goals as well. So being a better listener with Kelly or doing something better with the kids or my parents or whatever, things like that. Whatever I think that I need to do to improve as a person, more, not that is bad, but to get a little bit better at, that would be it. Every leader that I know that has had a great amount of success over a long period of time puts process and discipline around what really matters and whatever their v ocation may be. When you think about that in the world of golf, what's your process and discipline for getting prepared for the tournaments that you play in? Well, a little bit starts with stats, right? What does a golf course require? Augusta would be the easiest because we play it every year and you know what you need. So we'll take us through your thinking on Augusta since it's coming up. Yeah, I don't want to give too much. Obviously, Augusta National, there's a couple of things, but if there's one thing that my game always gets mentioned in the media, which drives me nuts, is that I can't hit a draw, which, huh, Master Champion can't hit a draw. Look at that. It's about as sarcastic as I'm going to get right now. But that's one of the things. Maybe work on getting some shots to be right to left, right? Surprisingly for people that don't know, besides maybe three T shots at Augusta National, the shot chip that you need the most is a fade, especially into the greens. There's no surprise, Jack, one six times, there's no surprise, Tigers, one five times, I mean, Tiger can move him both ways, but predominantly a fader of the golf ball, right? Follow, right? So I would work on those few shots that I know I'm going to need to draw on, and then a lot of it is almost touch around the greens for me. And when you go to Augusta, you're going to miss greens. You're going to miss fairways. This is kind of how it is. So I think the one thing in common from every single champion is their short game stats are really high up. At that point, you're working on everything, right? It all depends on how you feel at the time. It's really hard to put it on in a simple way. And it's so personal to me, right? Like if you're a drawer of the golf balls, you're not thinking about hitting a draw because you know how to do it, right? So it's hard to put it in a way where, and also don't want to give out too much of what I do. Yeah. Great secrets. So exactly. That's just kind of tough. That's why I say stats. Maybe I'm working on something that my stats say were a weakness, right? Things like that. You know, there's been a lot of fun, John, and I want to have a little bit more with the lightning round of questions with you. So are you ready to go here? I'm ready. What three words best describe you? Discipline. I want to say sensitive and loyal. Sensitive in the way of I'm a loving person. So I don't know how. Okay. Down the... I'm a teddy bear. I'm a complete teddy bear. I'm always, but I'm the biggest softer you'll ever meet. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be and why? It's about 10,000 names. I come to mind. Right now currently. Yeah. Honestly, just because of the success that she's had, and I would like to tap into that see what that is like, who's say Taylor Swift. Oh my... Will be an entertainer. I mean, that seems like a heck of an experience. What's your biggest pet peeves? I mean, the one that comes to mind. If somebody choose with a mouth open, like chewing gum or whatever, maybe. Who would play you in a movie? I always say Antonio Andira because he's Spanish, but at this point, you know, he would have played a little bit older version of me right now. I thought you might say Russell Crowe in the Gladiator. I'll say my answer. A young Russell Crowe maybe. Say where Antonio would be in the Spanish-dispended version. Although my accent is not there anymore like it was used to. Pants are shorts on the golf course. Regular events, shorts, majors, pants. Music or no music? Come on, I'm starting to hate this. Come on. I can do with either or. Okay. How about that? I'm neutral and that I can do with either. Oh, that's sort of a mealy, mousy answer. No, because I've always played with music when I'm home, but honestly, like when I'm home, I don't know, does it? Okay. Three tournament rounds or four? Four. What do you spend the most time doing when you're not on the golf course? Oh, right now, being with the kids, whatever it may be. What city in the US do you look forward to visiting because of a restaurant that you know you get to eat at? San Diego. Which restaurant? Can sushi workshop. If you haven't been, you have to go. This is a country everyone should visit in their lifetime. Spain. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Anything. Honestly, anything. It could be anything. The funny thing is, up until recently, a country wasn't an option, but now it is an option. What's something about you a few people would know? I think this is a question for you. Okay. I mentioned this to you a long time ago and maybe you're paid on me to say it. I am a professional hoarder of things. Like anything that's given to me or that is bought, I will form an emotional attachment to it and I can't get rid of it. I have such a hard time. Like if you go through all the golf backs I've had and you go into the top pocket where I usually put my phone and my watch and things like that, in a lot of them, you will find things that fans gave me. I just can't get rid of it. It's on the golf back. So I know it's not thrown away. It's there and then same thing, like even with getting rid of anything, old shoes that I've used for so long, I never going to use. I can't t-shirts. I just have such a hard time getting rid of what I've used and what has been mine. The most rewarding thing about returning to Augusta as the reigning champion. I think the treatment you get from the staff as a champion, it does make you feel different. You've always wanted to come back as a champion and be known as a champion, but the way this staff makes you feel when you're there and as a champion, especially a recent champion, it's quite incredible. You've had so much success already at such a young age, 29 years old, John. How do you think about giving back to others? What's that part of your life look like? I'm one of those that I will do my charitable contributions. I just don't advertise it for the most part. It can be anything from what we feel passionate about to natural disasters. It could be anything where we think it can help people. With that said, I do want to at some point have my own foundation and focus on something in particular, but as in right now, we haven't really, me and Kelly, haven't really thought exactly what we want to be doing. We're still like in being able to help whoever's in need at the time. You have an amazing wife, Kelly. You have two little boys, Kepa and Nico, who just announced now that you're about ready to have your third child, which is fantastic. Congratulations. Thank you. How do you lead at home, John? Kelly leads. I don't lead. I follow. Yeah, I'm sure that's true, but as a father. Yeah, I think I do exactly what my dad did. Maybe I'm not the most vocal, even though I try to tell him when I can, but be by example, even now, a lot of times when the physio comes home, it's gotten to the point where Kepa and Nico want to come down and be there. They see part of the process of what it takes for me to do what I do. Sometimes it'll be on the range with me because they're allowed on the unsovary ly range and they'll see me practicing so they can be a part of it. I'll say the same thing. Same thing I said earlier, just honesty, communication. And then with the kids, the biggest word I would use is presence. I'm already, let's say, like many fathers in this planet that are not home because they're working and a lot of them need to be working way more than I do, but financially speaking. But if I'm going to be doing all those things and being away as often as I am, especially being live now, I think it would be doing my kids at the service if when I'm with there, I'm not present. So being there with them, being present and having fun and being their father's the best thing. That's why when we're home, we do have this schedule. When I wake up early, I'll have the first hours of the day. So when they wake up, I'll get them out of their cribs, getting ready, getting ready for school, getting food, either water's breakfast and then Kelly will come in and maybe we drop them off together or not. And then at night, I want to make sure I'm home for dinner time, bath time, and a little bit of play time and then bed time. So it's hard to say exactly how I lead, but if anything, by example, in honesty , honestly, I don't do what you need to do. It doesn't lack of fun. That's kind of the best way I can put it. You know, you came from such humble beginnings and now you are superstar. You have, well, beyond what you ever imagined and you're going to be raising kids in that kind of environment. What do you do to keep yourself grounded and how do you see what do you think you will be doing to keep your kids grounded? I don't know what I will be doing, but I think that we'll have to find a way to see the privilege that we'll have. Or I want to be able to create an environment where they understand that certain things shouldn't be taken for granted and how lucky they truly are to be in the position they're in, right? So whether that's getting to work early, understanding priorities, understanding that you need to work for certain things to happen in your life to maybe volunteering where people need the help, any kind of volunteering work, I think would do a great job in that sense. So I think in perspective in what's going on and how this world is, I think it 's going to be the most important thing. So I hope I can do that. And the best way I can show it is it's very easy for me to say and do it. So I know me and Kelly, we're making trips to those and volunteer work so they see and understand because they're not going to have the upbringing. Not that I had a bad childhood. I mean, I had a fantastic childhood, but they're not going to see those things that I knew as they're going to understand because they're not going to experience it, right? They won't have the same experiences. Yeah. And it's not their fault. No, exactly. Exactly. It's funny. You work to be able to give them that and then you want to make sure they understand why this is so important, right? It's, they're so young right now that it's in right, all they need right now is all the love and support in the world. And I'm sure they'll be fine in that sense. Last question here. What's one piece of advice you give to someone who really wants to be a better leader? It depends on your discipline, right? In my case, from what I've experienced, it's accountability. I understand that I deflect a lot on the golf course and I say a lot of stupid things and I try to put it out work, but trust me when I say that internally, I'm fully aware of what I'm doing and that it's my fault, right? So I think as a leader, and I'm taking this a little extreme from the Navy Seal of Jocko Willink, I feel like once you're the leader of your CEO, if you're the person in charge and the decision maker and something goes wrong with it directly or indirectly, there's something that you could have done better. So accountability to own that, not that is never perfect, but that you could have done something better and try to learn from it. I think it's a very important virtue to have. Fantastic. John, I want to thank you very much for taking the time to do this podcast, especially with the Masters Week coming up. And you're a great person that I admire very, very much for all the traits and characteristics that you want to exude. You are honest, you are direct, you are the real deal. And I thank you for being my friend. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm honored to be part of this list of great leaders. I feel like I feel like I'm up a little short compared to a lot of people. But it's an honor to be here and to call you my friend as well, because you're the one doing the podcast, but I feel like you should be the one entering a lot of those questions. Well, thank you very much, John. Well, I can't wait to spend my weekend watching the Masters and seeing if John Rom can earn another green jacket. If you play golf, you know your success depends on how you make decisions. That's true for leaders too. But it's not just about making decisions, as John reminds us, you've got to own your decisions. Sometimes the level of commitment you bring to a decision matters just as much, if not more, than the decision you make itself. This says he'd rather hit a shot 100% committed, even if it's not quite the right club, than get the club selection right, but not be fully committed to the shot. When you own your decisions, you back them with resources and belief and accountability for whatever the outcomes are. That's a powerful lesson every great leader should know. And you want to incorporate it into your life this week. So here's an idea. Keep a decision log. Document your decisions and make notes along the way. At the end of the week, reflect on your list. Consider what you can do to own those decisions with even more support and belief and accountability. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders own their decisions. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Kevin Hochman, the CEO of Brinker International. That's the restaurant group that owns Chilis and Magiano's. The same lesson every time I've been in one of these turnarounds is make big changes to big things and you'll get big results out of that. And be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]